history_spork ([info]history_spork) wrote,
@ 2005-08-06 14:23:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood: bitchy

Braveheart
This time, it's just the two of us because [info]cloudlessnights is on vacation. And honestly, we were starting to envy her while we were watching Mel Gibson's Braveheart. Expect an unusual amount of venom in this one… and as always, make sure to join in!

Btw, added pictures are a result of our trip to Scotland from which we've just returned!




[info]fourth_rose: May I state at the very beginning that I have absolutely no wish to see this film again?

[info]cutecoati: You're not chickening out now and leaving me ALONE??

Voiceover: 1280. Historians from England will call me a liar, but history is written by those who have hanged heroes.

[info]fourth_rose: Fess up, dear colleague, how many heroes have you hanged so far?

[info]cutecoati: *whistles innocently* Btw, 1280? I thought the whole mess started when the Scottish king Alexander III died in 1286?

+++

Exposition: The English king Edward I invites the Scottish noblemen to peace talks. He's not at war with them, but who cares?

[info]fourth_rose: Kilts!! Kilts!! Repeat after me: not before the 16th century!!!

[info]cutecoati: Come on, otherwise they'd never know who is who in battle.

[info]fourth_rose: The unwashed ones are obviously meant to be the Scots.

+++

Hut of hanged noblemen.

[info]cutecoati: WTF???

William the Kid: *freaks out*

[info]cutecoati: Maybe he's just been told that he's going to grow into Mel Gibson? Oh, and over there - a hanged child!

[info]fourth_rose: Er, I thought this was meant to be the peace conference. What's a child doing there, anyway?

[info]cutecoati: Supplying the director with the opportunity to show that the English are the baaaaaaaaaaaad guys in this movie.

+++

Wallace senior: Let's fight the English!

Fellow Scots: Umh, ah… you know, we're farmers… all the noblemen were killed at the meeting!

[info]fourth_rose: Then who's Robert the Bruce, pray?

[info]cutecoati: And since when are the Wallaces farmers? Lower gentry, okay, but farmers?

Wallace senior: We don't have to beat them, just fight them.

[info]cutecoati: Now that's what I call a strategist!

[info]fourth_rose: And look, they got their swords hidden under the roofs of their cottages!

[info]cutecoati: Thank God it never rains in Scotland.

+++

William the Kid: I wanna fiiiiiiiight…

Wallace senior: I know you can fight, but it's our wits that make us men.

[info]fourth_rose: No men on the entire planet, then. (Sorry, guys ;-)

[info]cutecoati: *suffocating sounds*

+++

[info]fourth_rose: I know they have to get the point across that these are the "Dark Ages", but why are all the Scots so incredibly dirty? They look like they'd come straight out of a Monty Python movie!

[info]cutecoati: Bring out your dead! Or rather, bring home your dead because look, Daddy Wallace has kicked the bucket.

Little William watches his father's body being washed.

[info]cutecoati: Great, now they're washing him!

[info]fourth_rose: And they're burying him five inches deep! Man, that's going to stink…

Foreshadowing of lovestory. Little girl stares at little Willy, then walks over to him and hands him a thistle.

[info]fourth_rose: Means he's a prick, I suppose.

+++

Uncle Argyle: You're going to come with me, boy.

[info]cutecoati: Well, he's dressed a lot better.

[info]fourth_rose: And cleaner!

Uncle Argyle: You don't speak any Latin, boy? We'll remedy that.

[info]fourth_rose: How would the son of a farmer know any Latin?

[info]cutecoati: And what should he learn it for?

[info]fourth_rose: If you change the background of a historical person, then at least stick with your version, people.

Bagpipe serenade at Wallace senior's grave.

Uncle Argyle: Listen, boy. Outlawed tunes on outlawed pipes.

[info]cutecoati: Outlawed by whom? Can we establish here that the English are not ruling Scotland at this point??

[info]fourth_rose: There seems to be some confusion with the ban of Scottish national symbols after the defeat of Bonnie Prince Charlie at Culloden in the year forty-six. Seventeen forty-six, that is.

[info]cutecoati: And speaking of anachronisms, the sword which the boy is brandishing is a claymore from the 16th century.

+++

The English king Edward I attends the wedding of his son with princess Isabelle of France.

[info]fourth_rose: It's a well-established fact that the future Edward II was gay, but there's such a thing as overdoing the stereotype.

[info]cutecoati: Wait, let me at least get the timelines straight (no, that was not intended as a pun). William Wallace was born in the 1270s and died in 1305. Edward II was born in 1284 and married Isabelle in 1308 when he was already king and Wallace was dead!

[info]fourth_rose: Nitpicker, you.

King Edward: Let's send our noblemen to Scotland. Never mind that they have no business there and that I'm not entitled to send them.

Adviser: But they'll have to pay taxes.

[info]cutecoati: Noblemen pay taxes? When hell freezes over, buddy.

King: But I'll grant them the ius primae nocte. We'll breed the Scottish out to get the nobility we want there.

[info]fourth_rose: Where to begin?

[info]cutecoati: One: it's ius primae noctis. Second, it's one of the most stupid myths about the Middle Ages ever. Third, is the king implying that the illegitimate offspring of noblemen and commoners are nobles themselves? That's a new one.

[info]fourth_rose: I officially do not understand this plan anyway.

[info]cutecoati: He's basically giving away a country that doesn't belong to him in the first place.

+++

Robert the Bruce: I'm the Earl of Bruce…

[info]fourth_rose: No, you're not. You're the Earl of Carrick.

Robert the Bruce: …and I'm uncertain in my loyalties. I mean, I'm Scottish, but hey, the English king grants us ius primae nocta!

[info]cutecoati: *whimpers*

+++

Enter adult William Wallace.

[info]fourth_rose: Hey, any proper Scotsman would be ashamed of that excuse for a beard!

[info]cutecoati: And he's supposed to be of an age with Robert the Bruce. Sorry, Mel, but no one is going to buy that.

Wallace: *talks Scottish. Or so he thinks*

[info]fourth_rose: You know, there's something seriously wrong with an accent when a non-native speaker like me can hear that it's fake.

[info]cutecoati: Oh my god, and now he's speaking French.

[info]fourth_rose: Well, he's trying to impress his girl.

[info]cutecoati: Btw, why is she called Murron? Wallace's wife was called Marian.

[info]fourth_rose: I suppose they were afraid that the audience would confuse him with Robin Hood.

[info]cutecoati: *headdesk*

+++

Wallace: Marry me?

Murron: Aye, that's a yes.

Wallace: Yeah.

[info]fourth_rose: Oh God, a secret wedding all alone in the woods. And the poor farm girl brought a white wedding dress, too. May I point out that a wedding sans witnesses is questionable by definition?

[info]cutecoati: Well, at least they didn't have to go to Gretna Green.

Wedding night…

[info]fourth_rose (covers eyes): Please tell me when Mel Gibson is dressed again.

+++

Ebil Englishmen go after Wallace's girl wife.

[info]cutecoati: Will you look at these track armours they're wearing! I'm particularly fond of the trousers made of tiny metal plates…

[info]fourth_rose: Bound to chafe, that.

English lord: You attacked the King's soldiers, wench! I will totally cut your throat now!!

[info]fourth_rose: A lord working as executioner. Suuuuuuuure.

[info]cutecoati: Why do they think executioners wear masks? It's because it's a disreputable business, not because they don't want to be recognized by their customers in the afterlife!

[info]fourth_rose: Well, this particular lord also isn't ashamed to brawl with a farmer…

Wallace: *approaches on horseback in slow motion of doom*

[info]cutecoati: Finally, he's allowed the first Jesus-like pose… pity that the "hands up" gesture only became common in the time of hand-guns.

Squabbling ensues.

Village people: Great idea! Uprising! Revolution! Kill the Englishmen! Allons, enfants de la patrie!

[info]fourth_rose: And all that because, according to the real legend, he quarrelled with two English soldiers about some fish he'd caught.

[info]cutecoati: Well, "some chick he'd caught" is considered more touching, I guess.

[info]fourth_rose: Especially since Wallace's wife allegedly was killed by the English as a punishment after he'd started the uprising.

+++

Wallace gathers the rebels around him.

[info]fourth_rose: Not to plagiarize the Secret Diaries, but does he ever wash his face?

[info]cutecoati: I'm more impressed by the amount of swords these farmers possess. Apart from the fact that they obviously also know how to use them.

[info]fourth_rose: Don't forget their battle-trained horses! That's no peasantry, that's a guerrilla force to begin with!

Wallace: Let's attack the English fort castle! Let's wear their uniforms so they will let us in!

[info]cutecoati: The idea of 13th century uniforms is almost cute.

Wallace: Tell the English that Scotland is free!

[info]cutecoati: Finally, the f-word! Mel was going blue in the face already.

[info]fourth_rose: That comes later, I think. Besides, the English know that Scotland is a separate kingdom, and no-one during this time would have understood Mel's concept of "free".

+++

Robert the Bruce: Dad, can I have a word? I'm sorry you have to be a leper in this movie just because I was towards the end of my life, but the commoners are revolting.

Bruce senior: You go with Wallace, son; I'll stand with England. You have a strong claim to the Scottish throne, so let's keep our options open. But remember that the nobles are the key to the throne.

[info]fourth_rose: Leprous or no, I could kiss this guy now.

[info]cutecoati: The first historically correct statement in this whole bloody movie. Of course the nobles are the key. Who else??

+++

Isabelle's lady-in-waiting: OMG they killed Wallace's sweetheart because they were trying to get to him!! It was totally a trap OMG!!!

[info]cutecoati: Uh… why? He hadn't done anything at that point!?!

Lady-in-waiting: And I know all this because I slept with the whole garrison OMG!!

[info]fourth_rose: French slut cliché: check.

Lady-in-waiting: He's doing it all for twu wuv!!

Isabelle: *swoons*

[info]fourth_rose: That's supposed to be the future "she-wolf of France"??

[info]cutecoati: Well, she was but a kid at that time… and in France, but that's beside the point, I guess.

+++

Battle of Stirling bridge. Only, without a bridge.

[info]fourth_rose: That battlefield looks more like an English golf course…

[info]cutecoati: I have visions of a Tiger Woods cameo now. "Step off the lawn, you!!"

Scottish soldiers: The English are coming. Let's go home.

[info]cutecoati: First intelligent suggestion in this movie.

Enter Wallace & men in blue war paint.

[info]fourth_rose: Well, the kilts and the weapons are from the early modern period, so I guess it makes sense to contrast them with second century woad makeup.

Soldier: That's Wallace???

[info]cutecoati: I can understand why he's having trouble believing it.

[info]fourth_rose: Besides, I'm getting the feeling he's going to lead the whole battle by his lonesome. Where's Moray? You know, the other leader? The strategist?

[info]cutecoati: Well, there's a "Mornay" on the cast list…

[info]fourth_rose: That's a French sauce, not a military leader.

Wallace: *goes into full declamatory mode* …homage to Scotland blah blah… defiance of tyranny blah blah… fight as free men, sons of Scotland blah blah… Basically, give me liberty or give me death OMG!!!

[info]cutecoati: I really hope he's wearing underwear under that kilt.

[info]fourth_rose: Tight underwear.

Wallace: Englishmen, ask for forgiveness for a hundred years of theft, rape and murder!!

Englishmen: We've been at peace with Scotland for most of the 13th century, you bloody propagandist!!

Scots: *lift their kilts*

[info]fourth_rose: No underwear, then…

[info]cutecoati: I so didn't need to see that.

English: *shoot at bare Scottish arses*

Scots: *turn around very quickly*

Cavalry charge - and another slow motion of doom. As if the movie weren't long enough already. Merry butchering ensues.

[info]cutecoati: Seriously, what's it with Mel Gibson and extra disgusting battle scenes?

[info]fourth_rose: Besides, he's got a sword from the future, but he's never heard of helmets?

Wallace: Victory!! I totally didn't need that bloody bridge!

+++

Knighting ceremony. Wallace is declared Guardian of Scotland.

[info]fourth_rose: I'm really curious at this point who's doing the knighting here - since the movie never mentioned so far that there are several Scottish nobles who have a claim to the throne…

[info]cutecoati: …who asked the English king to come to Scotland because they couldn't agree on a candidate…

[info]fourth_rose: Well, in this movie, they got all hanged for their efforts.

[info]cutecoati: Then who are the guys in that hall now?

Scottish nobles: *bicker*

Robert the Bruce: *eyeroll*

Wallace: I'm leaving and invading England instead. Your position exists to provide the people of Scotland with freedom!!

Nobles: Huh?

[info]fourth_rose: Freedom from what?

[info]cutecoati: Look, Mel, a medieval peasant (in your words: a farmer from a time long ago) has a manorial lord for whom he works, and whether that lord is English or Scottish really doesn't make much of a difference to him!

[info]fourth_rose: Besides, it's the lords who have to go to war when the need arises, not the peasants!

[info]cutecoati: Because a peasant isn't trained to fight, for pity's sake.

Robert the Bruce: Willy, idiot, we need the nobles!

[info]fourth_rose: Damn right you do!

Wallace: Men don't follow nobles, they follow courage!

Robert the Bruce: Mate, where are you from?

[info]cutecoati (sings): Brave, brave Sir William…

+++

King Edward: Son, why is Wallace sacking York???

Prince: I've no idea! He's not supposed to do that!

King: Says who??

Prince: History!!

King: You pansy!! *throws son's lover out of the window* I'll send your wife to Wallace, just so you know.

Prince: *pouts* I think we just established that I SO don't care.

+++

Isabelle: I'm the Princess of Wales.

Wallace: No you aren't.

Isabelle: I know. Anyway, I'm here to bribe you.

Wallace: What are you offering?

Isabelle: Not what you're thinking, perv. Not yet, anyway. You'll get land, titles, and money, and you leave us alone in return.

Wallace: Slaves are made that way!

Isabelle: Show me one slave who has land, titles, and money, then. Btw, I know about your girl.

Wallace: *heartbreak mode* I've never spoken of it.

Isabelle: Then why is it the subject of bedroom gossip?

Wallace: You tell your king Wallace will not be ruled, and neither will any Scot while I live.

Isabelle: Did you tell that to the guys on your side who're fighting over the throne at the moment?

Wallace: Aren't you supposed to be smitten at this point?

Isabelle: Oh, right. *swoons*

+++

King Edward: Well done, bitch. You were just a ruse anyway while I was preparing another attack. Let's go stab him in the back.

Isabelle: Fine. Btw, I gave your money to the poor, and I'm SO warning my sweet Willy to beware of your ebil plans.

[info]fourth_rose: The real Isabelle is rolling in her grave at this point.

+++

Scottish war council.

Robert the Bruce: *sigh*

Wallace: Give me all your men! We will fight!!!

Robert the Bruce: Sir William, STFU.

Wallace: Outrage!! If you're Scotsmen, then I'm not one!!

[info]cutecoati: That explains the accent.

Wallace: We could have a country of our own!!

Robert the Bruce: You don't say. What do you think I want to become king of?

+++

Battle of Falkirk.

[info]fourth_rose: Man, am I looking forward to seeing Mel getting his ass kicked.

King Edward: *is a heartless bastard*

Wallace: Bruce isn't coming OMG!!

[info]cutecoati: Don't blame Robert the Bruce for your messing up!

Wallace: *waves for reinforcements*

Scottish lords: We'll pass, thx.

[info]fourth_rose: That will teach you to keep a civil tongue in your head next time!

Wallace's troops: *get butchered*

Wallace: *rides straight into attacker's lance*

[info]cutecoati: His lance is longer than your sword, buddy. Live with it.

[info]fourth_rose: Well, that's what happens when farmers play knight.

English attacker turns out to be Robert the Bruce.

Wallace: Bruce! You betrayed me OMG!!

Robert the Bruce: Man, I'm surprised myself. Because in reality, I totally didn't.

+++

Robert the Bruce: Wah, I feel so baaaaad now. I sent my peasants to fight for me…

[info]cutecoati: If you'd really done that, it would explain why you lost.

Bruce senior: Son, have you gone nuts?

Robert the Bruce: Sorry, Dad, I think I caught something from Wallace. It'll pass, I promise. I'll never be on the wrong side again.

[info]fourth_rose: Because you've always been on your side and always will.

+++

Wallace: *starts killing ebil treacherous noblemen all by his lonesome*

[info]fourth_rose: Isn't it interesting that political assassinations suddenly are noble deeds if he's doing them?

+++

Wallace: Bruce has asked me to come to Edinburgh.

Wallace's men: Can you say "trap"?

Wallace: Joining the nobles is our only chance.

[info]cutecoati: Oh, is reality kicking in?

Wallace: *goes to see Bruce*

Scottish noblemen: *capture Wallace*

Robert the Bruce: Nooooooooooo! Dad, you bastard!! *shakes scheming leprous daddy*

[info]cutecoati: Be careful or you'll be holding his ears in your hands.

Bruce senior: Shut up. You'll be king now.

Robert the Bruce: Well, ok. But I'm not happy, mind.

+++

Wallace in the dungeons.

Isabelle: Let me see the prisoner, underling.

[info]fourth_rose: Finally, we get a glimpse of the real Isabelle.

Isabelle: *switches back into whining girl mode*

Wallace: Let me seize this last chance to spout patriotic platitudes. Freedom, freedom, freedom! Let me die a hero's death! Let them torture me, I'm totally into BDSM!!

+++

King Edward's sickbed.

Isabelle: Your majesty, let me keep my boytoy, pleeeeeeeease!

King: *rasping breath*

Isabelle: Ok, forget it. However, you might be interested in the fact that I got knocked up by your archenemy and that I'll get totally rid of your excuse for a son.

King: *rasping breath*

[info]fourth_rose: One would think the history of Isabelle and Edward II is colourful enough without having to bring Wallace into the mix.

+++

Execution day. Wallace is being all sensitive.

[info]fourth_rose: Hey, we're on the Via Dolorosa now! It's Wallace on a cross!

[info]cutecoati: If it weren't for the kilt, I'd think we'd switched to "Passion of the Christ" at this point.

Wallace is hanged, drawn and quartered. Heroically, of course.

[info]fourth_rose: Isn't it rather significant that they shot the execution of all things according to the historical facts?

[info]cutecoati: I really wonder what makes Mel Gibson like scenes like that one so much.

Crowd: Mercy!

[info]fourth_rose: Let him be, he's having the time of his life at the moment!

Isabelle: *tear*

[info]fourth_rose: I'm a bit reluctant to say it…

[info]cutecoati: …but he plays dying like having really smashing sex.

Wallace: FREEDOM!

[info]fourth_rose: Oh, that's what they mean by "ejaculating a statement".

[info]cutecoati: We get it that you get off on this, Mel. Give us a break already.

Robert the Bruce: *tear*

Axe: *falls*

[info]cutecoati & [info]fourth_rose: Oh, finally.

+++

Battle of Bannockburn.

[info]cutecoati: It's nine years later already?

[info]fourth_rose: Well, Wallace got executed eight years after Falkirk, and they passed like whoa, too.

Voiceover: I, Robert the Bruce, went to kick English butts this morning. For William Wallace, of course. *cough*

Robert the Bruce: Men, you have bled with Wallace. Now bleed for with me.

[info]cutecoati: Oh God, not another one.

Men: Wallace! Wallace!

Robert the Bruce: Man, will I be glad when I don't have to hear that name anymore.

Voiceover Mel Gibson: They fought like warrior poets. They fought like Scotsmen and won their freedom.

[info]fourth_rose: Fortunately, Robert the Bruce did not fight like a poet and therefore became King of Scotland.

[info]cutecoati: Scotland went on exactly as before because, in all honesty, it didn't make that much of a difference.

+++

[info]fourth_rose: I think I need a whisky now.

[info]cutecoati: Cheers!



The next instalment will be Roland Emmerich's "The Patriot" - and then we're done with Mel Gibson.




Page 1 of 3
<<[1] [2] [3] >>

(Post a new comment)


[info]shocolate
2005-08-06 01:04 pm UTC (link)
*clings to your leg*

It's the Isabelle thing - if they so blatently change her dates - and her entire personality - well...

*loathes mel gibson*

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 03:05 pm UTC (link)
Yes! - and what a fascinating character the real Isabelle was! And wasting the talent of Sophie Marceau like that!

Mel Gibson really has everything that makes a person despicable...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-11-28 07:37 pm UTC

[info]zoepaleologa
2005-08-06 01:11 pm UTC (link)
Le sigh, as Pod!Isabelle might have said.

There's no end to the sheer badness of Braveheart or the way it takes history, makes it bend over, and sticks the sort of red hot poker up it's back end, as will later ensure the peaceful accession of Edward III.

What is actually rather upsetting, is that William Wallace is that genuine article, an authentic hero who the Scots hold in much greater regard than Robert the Bruce. But he's something of a "warts and all" hero, and not this cutesy depiction in this movie.

And the anachonisms make me scream. Everything is out of context, and order.

Oh, and where were the Mediaeval teeth? Everyone has veneers.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 03:12 pm UTC (link)
sticks the sort of red hot poker up it's back end MWWAAHHH!!

During our trip to Scotland we had the impression that - despite being grateful for the impact the movie had on tourism - the movie is not that much liked, there had even been a huge controversy about this Mel-Gibson-as-Wallace monument at the parking lot of the 19th century Wallace memorial, and due to an attack in 1998, they had to put it in a cage during the night (and as we were there rather early in the morning, we were able to take this nice picture of Freedom!! behind bars :DD

Oh, the teeth, the teeth!!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]scerzyeck
2005-08-06 01:16 pm UTC (link)
Sheer brilliance once again! :-) *standing ovations* I absolutely love your take on this movie, and I could not stop laughing for quite some time... It's good that you are back from Scotland. ;-)

One: it's ius primae noctis.

Well, it's obviously not in this case. Let's speculate what "ius primae nocte" might be, shall we? I'd translate that as "right of the first (female) one at night", so maybe it gives those noblemen the right to sleep with whichever lady they run across first at any given night? O:-) Might be an interesting new myth to replace the old one... ;-)
On second thoughts, though, if it is

ius primae nocta!,

then it must rather be a reference to an obscure ancient Roman law revived here, hm? The "Lex Nocta", I guess, introduced by M. Noctus Scurra in 56 BC, or something.

Third, is the king implying that the illegitimate offspring of noblemen and commoners are nobles themselves? That's a new one.

Hey, he's an *English* king, and England was conquered by someone originally referred to as William the Bastard, remember? :-P

Fortunately, Robert the Bruce did not fight like a poet and therefore became King of Scotland.

Best comment ever. :-D Thank you so much for this!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 03:15 pm UTC (link)
BWAAAAHHHH!!!

Thank you, and thank you!! for the translations!! Hmmm... Lex Nocta... lots of possibilities to think about...

William the Bastard... *giggling like mad*

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]scerzyeck, 2005-08-06 03:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]history_spork, 2005-08-06 04:57 pm UTC

[info]igraine_bamboo
2005-08-06 01:19 pm UTC (link)
Mel Gibson just needs to be sporked out of principle. This gives yet another good reason. Awesome job as always. :0)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 04:37 pm UTC (link)
Thank you!

Mel Gibson just needs to be sporked out of principle.

E.X.A.C.T.L.Y.! ;-))

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]igraine_bamboo, 2005-08-06 08:12 pm UTC

[info]aervir
2005-08-06 01:20 pm UTC (link)
I think I ♥♥♥ you two!

I had no idea (well, a definite very slight suspicion) that there was so much wrong with this movie, but I do have the suggestion that Mel Gibson should be tied to a caber and force-fed haggis for this atrocity.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 04:42 pm UTC (link)
Thank you so much!

*gg*

Brilliant idea!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bodlon, 2005-11-15 12:58 pm UTC
fourth_rose: One would think the history of Isabelle and Edward II is colourful enough without
[info]faithhopetricks
2005-08-06 01:26 pm UTC (link)
cutecoati: One: it's ius primae noctis. Second, it's one of the most stupid myths about the Middle Ages ever. Third, is the king implying that the illegitimate offspring of noblemen and commoners are nobles themselves? That's a new one.
fourth_rose: I officially do not understand this plan anyway.
cutecoati: He's basically giving away a country that doesn't belong to him in the first place.


I love you guys.

Robert the Bruce: I'm the Earl of Bruce…
fourth_rose: No, you're not. You're the Earl of Carrick.
Robert the Bruce: …and I'm uncertain in my loyalties. I mean, I'm Scottish, but hey, the English king grants us ius primae nocta!
cutecoati: *whimpers*


Let me just repeat: I love you guys.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: fourth_rose: One would think the history of Isabelle and Edward II is colourful enough without
[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 04:43 pm UTC (link)
Thank you so much! ;-))

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]maple_clef
2005-08-06 02:20 pm UTC (link)
Oh, lordy - thanks for giving me the first big laugh in an otherwise dreary day! Stumbled across this on my friends of friends page, and I think it's fantastic! I'm looking forward to seeing the next Patriot-sporking instalment - it's a worthy target, to be sure. That Mel Gibson, he's been so generous to you guys ;)

*friends like whoah*

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 04:45 pm UTC (link)
Oh, wonderful! So glad we could brighten up your day!

Mel Gibson is always a worthy target, he and his very special take on history...

Welcome!!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]kahala, 2005-08-09 04:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]maple_clef, 2005-08-09 04:28 pm UTC

[info]mad_martha
2005-08-06 03:22 pm UTC (link)
May I worship you?

There are few movies I rate worse than Legends of the Fall, but this is one of the them. I can live with a certain amount of digression from history in a film but ....

If Gibson hates the English this much why doesn't he just take out an advert in The Times? Seriously, Mel, get a grip because NO ONE CARES!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 04:49 pm UTC (link)
Ooohh, thank you!

Braveheart is a particularly atrocious movie - no-one cares if a few details are, er, adapted, but to change simply everything just in order to get the message across (which, in Mel Gibson's case, no-one wants to hear anyway...).

Yay, and he shouldn't forget to mention the evil!gay people as well in his advert...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]vampirespider, 2006-04-14 03:47 pm UTC

[info]hilarita
2005-08-06 03:31 pm UTC (link)
I see that the Scots are allowed to have no idea of strategy whatsoever. I mean, even assuming that you've randomly got peasants in your army for no good reason, they're probably going to look at all those big blokes on horses with lances and be able to work out that a lance is much much longer than a sword.

And obviously the reason all the Scots are dirty is because it's too cold to wash up there. You're risking serious frostbite ;)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 04:53 pm UTC (link)
*gg*

Oh, if you explain it that way - no objection ;-))

Will it ever get around that it was the nobility who was fighting, and that it made no f*** difference for the peasants whom they were subjected to? Obviously not...

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]ariadneelda
2005-08-06 03:43 pm UTC (link)
*giggles insanely*

Oh man, brilliant sporking! I think I need to print this and endure watch that movie again. :D

Thanks for the great laugh!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 04:55 pm UTC (link)
Thank you!

The movie is really a pain in the arse... you simply can't watch it without mocking it at the same time...

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]laughingimp
2005-08-06 03:52 pm UTC (link)
*applause*

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 04:55 pm UTC (link)
Thank you!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]maexle
2005-08-06 04:41 pm UTC (link)
Wonderful! I sit here, grinning from one ear to the other. I never saw this movie because I can't stand Gibson and now I'm sure: I didn't miss something great. ;-)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 04:57 pm UTC (link)
Thanks!

Gibson is so horrible - you really have to bring yourself to watch one of his movies.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]maexle, 2005-08-06 05:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]history_spork, 2005-08-06 06:01 pm UTC

[info]quilt_stitcher
2005-08-06 05:14 pm UTC (link)
Hey, I've enjoyed your many sporks.

It occurs to me to wonder if there are any historically-set movies you regard as largely accurate? After reading several sporks I'd love to know what films might be worth my time.

Any recs?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 08:19 pm UTC (link)
Thank you!

Hmmm... both of us have liked Oliver Stone's "Alexander" a lot (if you're interested, here's a review) - there are historical inaccuracies as well (which are listed on the DVD-version!), but the movie tried to portray the historical Alexander and not get some modern idea across (and Alexander's a slightly lunatic and deeply troubled man and not the classic superhero...).

Movies like "Troy" or "Kingdom of Heaven" are at least enjoyable 'cause they don't take themselves too seriously...

sorry... here's the second try

(Reply to this) (Parent)

quhen Alexander our kynge was dede...
[info]angevin2
2005-08-06 05:14 pm UTC (link)
BWAH.

I did a course on Middle Scots poetry this past spring in which we read, among other things, the epic poems The Bruce and The Wallace (I think the Hut O' Hanging is actually borrowed from that poem, but of course the context is different). Since we of course got a lot of the real historical background in this course it's especially fun to read this sporking, since I've got a freshly established idea of just how wrong Mel et al. got things. ;)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: quhen Alexander our kynge was dede...
[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 06:22 pm UTC (link)
*gg*

It's almost painful how wrong this movie is... and at least, the poets from the 14th century on were aware of the fact that they were creating a fiction, but dear Mel...

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]thynk2much
2005-08-06 06:02 pm UTC (link)
Robert the Bruce: Sir William, STFU.

Wallace: Outrage!! If you're Scotsmen, then I'm not one!!

[info]cutecoati: That explains the accent.


BWAH!!

I knew Mel had taken liberties but hadn't realised the HEINOUS EXTENT. Looooved this.

Also, yes, his orgasmic violence thing is just......... yeah. Yikes.

BTW I second the comment above that would like to see [info]history_spork do a list of its approved-for-general-accuracy movies.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 06:27 pm UTC (link)
Thank you!

And we didn't even mention each mutilation of historical facts!

Gibson does have a thing with violence'n'bloodshed, doesn't he? This bloke's got a serious problem...

We're a little bit hesitant when it comes to rec history movies for their accuracy (Alexander! Alexander!)... since historians don't agree easily ;-))

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]snarkypants
2005-08-06 08:23 pm UTC (link)
Robert the Bruce: Dad, can I have a word? I'm sorry you have to be a leper in this movie just because I was towards the end of my life, but the commoners are revolting.

Leper the Bruce: You're telling me; they stink on ice.

Y'know, this would have been a much better movie if Mel Brooks had written it.

Brilliant sporkage. Looking forward to The Patriot evah so much! Will you spork The Passion to finish the trifecta?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-06 10:34 pm UTC (link)
Thank you!

Yay, Mel B. would've definitely been the better director... :DD

The Passion isn't on our to-do list, 'cause - well, there are limits to what we are able to endure ;-)) (We both haven't seen the movie, and we so do not want to...)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]geamhradh, 2005-08-06 11:21 pm UTC

[info]geamhradh
2005-08-06 11:19 pm UTC (link)
I'm ashamed to say that this is was my favourite movie for a while (I was young and foolish, okay? And there's not exactly a lot of films about historic!Scotland ;). Then I looked up the real William Wallace... My reaction was something like "Wait? What? Mel, how could you lie to me?!?!". *g*

At least more people know who Wallace is Well, sort of. Okay, maybe not. At least they know his name? That's good, right? thanks to this piece of old haggis. And that's about the only positive thing I can come up with. Oh, I guess the music's quite...pretty, too. But who knew that Scottish bagpipes sound exactly like Uilleann pipes? :P

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-07 04:11 pm UTC (link)
He lies a lot, that Mel, doesn't he? ;-))

What is so annoying about movies like this is that a lot more people might know now who e.g. Wallace is (which is, as you said, a good thing) but have completely wrong ideas about him and his time - it's just hammering in the prejudices against the "Dark Ages"...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]geamhradh, 2005-08-11 07:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anthraxia, 2005-09-03 09:52 am UTC

[info]faramir_boromir
2005-08-06 11:26 pm UTC (link)
*splutters* I've repressed it all, I see. It's been a long time since I sat through this with a bunch of medievalists who were all sporkers-in-training.

I particularly liked:

King: But I'll grant them the ius primae nocte. We'll breed the Scottish out to get the nobility we want there.

fourth_rose: Where to begin?

PRECISELY!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-07 04:12 pm UTC (link)
We really had to struggle to keep the sporking (somewhat) short - one could go on and on and on... there's not a single scene without something that makes you all go *facepalm* ;-))

Glad you liked it!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]shezan
2005-08-06 11:38 pm UTC (link)
Classic! Classic!!!!

*sends all her friends here*

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-07 04:13 pm UTC (link)
Thank you so much, dear!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]lizbetann
2005-08-07 12:40 am UTC (link)
fourth_rose: Oh God, a secret wedding all alone in the woods. And the poor farm girl brought a white wedding dress, too. May I point out that a wedding sans witnesses is invalid by definition?

Actually... ;)

Early to early-high Middle Ages, you didn't have to have witnesses. Saying, "I will marry this person" made you legally married. Of course, if you didn't have witnesses, and one person said, "Yup, totally married," and the other one said, "Nuh-uh!" ... well, you see where witnesses came in useful.

In 1214, the Vatican tried to put forward that weddings were a sacrement, and MUST have a priest to be real. Before that, weddings were legal contracts that you might bring a priest in to bless.

Of course, just because the Pope said it don't make it so (or a lot fewer Americans would be using birth control right now). In particular, in places that didn't have cable were far from Italy (like, say, Scotland), customs hung on for a very, very long time. The Auld Scottish Custom of Handfast, being basically, "I promise to take you as my spouse but there isn't currently a priest about, so can we shag until the priest gets here or we get sick of each other, whichever comes first?"

So Melliam and Not-Marian bringing a priest along to bless their vows in privacy... not as dumb as it looks. If anyone was going to dispute their wedding (or the legitimacy of their children), they at least had the priest along (who was not there to "officiate", he was just along to bless) to vouch for them.

However, I am putting waaaaaaaaaaay more thought into this than the screenwriters did (didja know the same guy wrote The Man in the Iron Mask w/Leonardo di Caprio?) so I shall let be.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]gnomentum
2005-08-07 10:29 am UTC (link)
You beat me to it.. thankyou

But otherwise.. spot on!

Point of interest.. did you know that for the filming of this movie, they only had three archers? I am told this was due to the £20 a day wages they offered and the fact they didn't offer travel or accomodation expenses to the English er-enactors they invited. Dedication to your art guys??

If you can bear to watch it again, look closely and you'll see they are all digitally reproduced.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]history_spork, 2005-08-07 04:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gnomentum, 2005-08-07 04:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]history_spork, 2005-08-07 04:30 pm UTC
Wedding in the woods - [info]xrian, 2005-12-01 04:48 am UTC
Re: Wedding in the woods - [info]angevin2, 2006-01-02 12:46 am UTC

[info]tracy_loo_who
2005-08-07 02:58 pm UTC (link)
LOL I'm so tempted to grab my mother's copy of this movie and reread this while I watch. :P

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-07 04:31 pm UTC (link)
*gg*

Oh, we wouldn't want you to suffer through the movie... ;-))) Glad you liked it!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]kajivar
2005-08-07 06:43 pm UTC (link)
Oh my god I love you. Friend of mine just linked this and I'm dying laughing reading. I majored in history in college and while I love to sit back and watch "historical" movies, I have to turn part of my brain off to keep snarking the movie and annoying the audience. ;)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-07 08:04 pm UTC (link)
Thank you!

It actually is difficult, sitting in the theatre and having to swallow down all the comments, isn't it?

Hope you're going to have fun with us! :D

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]rcfinch
2005-08-07 09:12 pm UTC (link)
As I wrote a historical mystery novel about the Great Cause once, I've known Braveheart was factual bullshit the moment I saw it. But it took your wonderful piece of sporking to make clear to me the emotional falseness was basically Mel Gibson bullshit. Thanks!


(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-08 07:14 am UTC (link)
Thanks for enjoying!

Yay, there's a lot of nonsense in a lot of history movies, but Mel Gibson's are always something special...

Emotional falseness - that's a very good way to put it!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]leni_jess
2005-08-08 02:05 am UTC (link)
Thank you so much! *wipes awa' a wee tear* Another movie you've saved me from!

Film directors are notoriously indifferent to the accuracy of their portrayals (makes you think they don't know that one about 'history repeating itself', but then they're not in the education business). Your analysis, though, makes it clear that dear Mel (whom so many insist in claiming as an Australian because he spent a few years here in childhood, grr) brings a particularly perverted view to representation of the past. All about the message. Right.

I was going to beg you to do The Patriot, but I see I don't need to. I'm rather fond of Tavington (whose representation as far as I can make out doesn't too violently misrepresent the original, except of course that Tarleton didn't die but went home to become a moderately successful politician, and had himself painted in particularly girly guise to celebrate surviving the war). Mel's character, though - well, I'm just waiting for you to deal with him faithfully.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-08 07:21 am UTC (link)
Thank you! :D

With Mel Gibson, it's always about the message, and the message is always a 20th/21st-centuries one, and he just forces it upon his historical characters (like, a medieval king being there to provide his subjects with freedom??? freedom for a medieval peasant???) and then he - to do him justice, he's not the only one doing that - claims that "these ideals" have "always been around" and have "only been supressed in the past" hmmm... medieval peasants reading Rousseau and Montesquieu, now that's an interesting approach... :P

We're quite looking forward to Jason Isaacs "The Patriot"... the goooood and the baaaad are going to war... ;-)))

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]i_like_soap
2005-08-08 02:36 am UTC (link)
Now that was brilliant!

I confess, I had no idea exactly how inaccurate the film was.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]history_spork
2005-08-08 07:22 am UTC (link)
Thank you so much!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]i_like_soap, 2005-08-08 10:45 am UTC

Page 1 of 3
<<[1] [2] [3] >>

Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…